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Starting To Date Again
Gary Bettman hasn’t exactly been Winnipeg’s favourite character since his NHL tenure began in 1993. That’s why it’s so ironic that we may see him in a favourable light as of yesterday.
For the past few years I have been assuring supporters of the Return of the Jets Campaign that Winnipeg was higher on the NHL’s agenda than most, if not all other possible cities with regards to a relocation destination. (Notice I said relocation, not expansion. No, expansion will be saved for the Southern Ontario market at an inflated rate). And that’s if they even believed that a team would come back to Winnipeg at any point in time, ever.
So yesterday’s leak of court documents that contained Gary Bettman’s declaration that “if a team did return to Canada, it would be Winnipeg”, was in many ways a load off my back, and yet one more piece of this puzzle proven to be correct by www.JetsOwner.com.
NHL VP Bill Daly confirmed Bettman’s statement and said he wasn’t surprised by it. Frankly neither am I. That’s because Winnipeg has been working behind the scenes on this for longer than most people realize. We are also taking the correct approach, that being waiting patiently in line at the front door of NHL headquarters rather than trying to (repeatedly) sneak in through the side door. The NHL is an exclusive club and clubs have rules. They have a protocol and due process that must be followed. Jim Balsillie either hasn’t figured this out or enjoys challenging Gary Bettman in his own backyard. Assuming the enormously successful entrepreneur from Harvard is a very savvy businessman, I’ll go with the latter.
Never-the-less, it is a distraction welcomed by interests in Winnipeg, who as a group will play their cards right and come out on top in the long run. Manitobans can rejoice that Mr. Balsillie isn’t in our corner because if he was, our name would be mud as well.
The fact is, the NHL is fully aware of Winnipeg’s potential to be successful now that we have a modern building that would be fully owned and operated by it’s NHL tenant, therefore generating revenue streams necessary to sustain a healthy franchise. The fans are here, the corporate community is here, the ownership is in place and the arena is ready to roll. Just print the tickets and they’ll be gone. Remember, hockey is #1 here with the next popular sport a distant 2nd.
Right now in Arizona, hockey falls well behind the other three major pro sports, racing and any number of college sports. The fact is, people would hardly notice if they left town. A rally today of around 130 people in a restaurant parking lot made up the desire for the Coyotes to stay in the desert. For those of us who remember being at The Forks in the spring of 1995 along with 35,000 other fans can giggle a little at this. Will they move to Winnipeg? My guess is no. But there will be other teams following suit sooner than most people realize. The Coyotes will be in a legal mess for a while. We will watch it play out.
At least we know where the NHL stands, officially finally, with regards to WinterPeg.
I guess all those folks who insist on telling me MTS Centre is too small or that the NHL would never consider Winnipeg as an option can start eating their words.
I’ve spent the better part of 6 years leading people down a path I strongly feel will succeed. I’m not about to start misleading people now.
Winnipeg is not only an option in the NHL’s mind…it is considered THE option. Oh how times come full circle.
Still think it can’t happen?
.
In Winnipeg...
Darren Ford
Founder
Return of the Jets Campaign
www.JetsOwner.com
Some Other Articles That You May Enjoy:
Winnipeg: Hockey Central
Welcome From Winnipeg!
Give Me a Break: Bettman’s Stance on Versus/DirecTV Feud a Joke
Do Fear The Reaper: Coyotes Under League Control
Wings/Stars Highlights: Detroit Doesn’t Show, Osgood Gets Yanked
Potential Buyer – Wolves in Coyotes Clothing?
We hope you enjoyed this post. As always, leaving a comment below is both appreciated and encouraged. Thanks!
its so sweet serving up humble pie to nay sayer. load those plates up good Daren they deserve it and you earned it
Darren,
Back in 2003, I wrote to your fledgling site, and said things like they’ll never come back, economics, lack of capital, no desire by the league, etc… I was there in 1995 at the Forks and the arena, and I loved the Jets, but I really believed that our time had come … and gone. I suppose I’ll take my words back now, with a little crow on the side. They’re still not back yet, but I believe again, I Believe Again!
I don’t even think the NHL wanted to get rid of Winnipeg back in 1996.
We desperately needed an NHL-calibre arena. It wasn’t built. The Winnipeg Jets owners (Shenkarow) sold the team to a group who moved them to Phoenix.
Who the heck would have WANTED to own the Winnipeg Jets playing out of a no-luxury-suite, Winnipeg-Enterprises-Controlled Winnipeg Arena anyways?!
It wasn’t about Bettman hating Winnipeg or being anti-Canada or the NHL becoming “too big” for Winnipeg or wanting us OUT.
To be in the NHL, at least beginning in the late 20th century and 21st century, you absolutely **need** an NHL-calibre arena! Winnipeg has never had one up until the year 2004.
Who is the ownership? Who in Winnipeg (or what group of owners) have the deep pockets to buy a team at $140+ million? What will we do with the profitable Moose? I am guessing they would fetch a good price tag but who will buy them in this “recession”?
Conradiucs:
1. Our ownership group: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu6uAuTXBOo (3:30 – 3:40 mark)
2. The Moose will fold or relocate (Winnipeg’s new NHL team will take their place as the main MTS Centre tenant)
As Scott Taylor of the river city sports blog points out, Winnipeg did have an ownership group willing to take over the Jets in 96, but at the time Bettman was against ownership groups. He wanted one owner per city. Of course, Edmonton was allowed to form an ownership group and that worked out pretty well, so him and the NHL and the NHLPA probably have no problem with the idea now.
And the Arena can be expanded/upgraded for the NHL. It’s only 5 years old. It won’t seat 19,000, maybe 16,000 tops, but they’d all be pretty good seats unlike the old Winnipeg Arena. Although there was a certain charm to the amount of vertigo you got there.
The ownership group in ‘96 did not come through anyway (regardless of Betmann allowing it or not). I was on Portage and Main when the “ownership group” decided the venture was too risky and it all blew up in our face.
I am also under the impression that a similar ownership group from a couple years ago included Asper’s son who presumably has all his money tied up with the Blue Bombers and saving Canwest. As Sam Katz mentioned in the Free Press recently, we have no ownership group as of late to his knowledge.
I think Betmann is using Winnipeg as a future NHL prospect knowing it will not happen (no owners). His hopes is that he will no longer be preceived as anti Canadian.
What is interesting right now is that Balsillie is in Winnipeg today meeting with the Manitoba Chamber of Commerce. Coincidence? Should he not be more interested in the court ruling today in Pheonix?
Conradicus did you even look at the link I sent you? Winnipeg DOES have an NHL ownership group with the financial means to buy an NHL team- and has had one for a long time.
Everything is in place for Winnipeg to be home to a new NHL team. Everything.
It’s just waiting for the right deal. Atlanta, Nashville, Carolina, Tampa… or even Phoenix. I wouldn’t be surprised if 3 or 4 struggling teams are talking to Winnipeg right now about moving up here.
My mistake on Mr. Balsillie visiting today (June 2nd – not today).
I watched the video again. Mark Chipman mentioned we have a “very solid ownership group” a “very well established group of owners”. But who are they? And why won’t Sam Katz acknowledge this “long time” group of potential owners when he was asked? Is he trying to sabbotage the city?
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009/05/16/sp-hockey-balsillie-swings-branch.html
http://www.rivercitysportsblog.com/bettman-uses-winnipeg-as-a-pawn-in-his-nasty-fight-with-balsillie/
Something doesn’t seem right.
Trying not to get my hopes up too high but this is the piece of the puzzle that always seems to elude everyone. Darren Ford says the stars are aligning as well. But nobody seems to know who these new owners are. It seems so conflicting.
Don’t get me wrong. I have my credit card in hand waiting for season tickets. I miss the old Jets and the old barn. I want them back! If our stars do align, and Gary comes knocking on our door one day, I fear we will not answer and our hopes and dreams will be dashed forever giving Gary Bettman credibility.
I think that Contradictus raises a good point. I do not believe that Winnipeg has the pockets for an expansion team. Our best course is to pick off a struggling team with an owner willing to let it go “under market price” (i.e. the league’s expansion fee). Balsillie may have priced Winnipeg out for a Phoenix bid (and if it came to a bidding war, Winnipeg can’t match RIM’s pockets). Dareen has always advocated that course of action. Having said that, there are other teams that may be ripe for the taking.
I already sent you an e-mail about this Darren, but take Bettman’s word with a big grain of salt. All he said was that he PREFERRED Winnipeg to Hamilton. There could be a good half-dozen US markets that Bettman has far higher on his list of prospective relocation cities than Winnipeg. All he’s doing here is calling out Basillie’s supposedly ‘Canadian’ (read: his own backyard) drive for a seventh franchise, divide the fan support for such a franchise by region, and give the public a nice little soundbyte that makes it sound like he cares about Canadian franchises. He knows perfectly well that Basillie doesn’t care about a team being anywhere outside of Hamilton and is counting on that to quietly weasel a potential relocation south of the 49th.
What does it all amount to in terms of the chances of the Jets returning? Unfortunately, probably nothing. Which is an immense shame, since if Basillie just bit his tougne, accepted that – like the League – beggars can’t be choosers, and was flexible on where that Canadian franchise he’s so hellbent on acquiring is located, there could be HUGE headway made on getting a seventh Canadian team. Bettman made that statement on Winnipeg in a legal document, if Basillie suddenly called out Bettman on moving the Coyotes he’d be caught with his pants down and the fan support for another franchise would remain united behind him.
I was such a pessimist when it came to the NHL returning to Winnipeg and I was so wrong. All I can say is:
I LOVE GARY BETTMAN!!!!!!!!
I have been listening to CJOB and reading comments on the Winnipeg Free Press and Winnipeg Sun websites, and many of them have been of the nature that “Winnipeg can’t afford the ticket prices”. Really? I have attended Vancouver Canucks and Calgary Flames games and paid the $40 – $50 ticket prices, and would even pay more potentially for individual tickets to games here, and I would go on a regular basis. Could I afford season tickets? Well no, but I would consider buying ticket packages, and season tickets would be a possibility in the future as I progress in my career (not everyone in Winnipeg makes $20,000/year). And yes I would still attend the games if the team was garbage (hey I still like the Blue Bombers
).
The second type of comments that I’ve heard is that if a team moved here they would automatically lose millions of dollars per year. Why? Why would TNSE approach the NHL with a business model that was designed around losing millions of dollars per year? Both parties realize that this would be a bad business model, and the semi-regular talks that occur between TNSE and the NHL would not occur; the business model would have to make a modest profit or at least break-even.
The biggest barrier I see is not Gary Bettman anymore (and boy was I shocked to hear his comments, and I do think they are legit), but getting into a bidding war with other potential locations, because as I think it is commonly agreed upon TNSE and minority investors cannot hope to outbid RIM and other mega-U.S. corporations for a franchise; it will have to be a buyers market with a number of franchises looking to relocate. Will it happen? Here’s hoping…
Now Winnipegers love Gary Bettman?
The Jets returning? The only thing funnier would be the Headline: Darren Ford, Dancing Gabe Found Dead in Double Auto-Erotic Asphyxiation Mishap
Historically, Bettman has gone with the lowest bidder. It happened with Nashville and Pittsburgh already when he turned down Balsillies offers. He would likely go for the lower bid to keep the team in Phoenix from that Riensdorf (sp?) guy who owns the White Socks and Chicago Bulls. Bettman (I can’t believe I am saying this) will take a lower bid if it meant keeping a team in its market or moving it to a location that makes sense (Winnipeg). He might be genuinely trying to right a wrong here. Here is hoping!
Mathew raises THE point out of all of this. Winnipeg might be 3 or 4 on the list of potential sites, but if there is a list, and Winnipeg is on that list, it’s a good thing. The Reinsdorf bid appears to be a front for an investment group that is interested in moving the team to Las Vegas. I don’t doubt for a moment that Winnipeg was brought up to muddy the waters for Balsille (sp.). But Balsillie is also guilty of the same thing. If it comes through for him, the city of Hamilton, and the Wentworth municipality (along with Provincial and Federal funds) will refurbish an arena that will be used for all of 5 years, while Balsillie builds RIM Place in the tri-cities (Kitchener, Waterloo, and Cambridge). It’s disgusting IMO really how poorly BOTH sides are treating the fans in all of this.
heres a fun little idea…..Bettman has said he wants winnipeg back in over any other canadian city right now…what if Jim BallsSilly agrees to move the team to Winnipeg under the idea that if the “new Jets” are in fact successful (as we all seem to think) then BallsSilly will get an Ontario expansion team within 5yrs…ergo if he helps make it a success and proves his point then he gets a new team –maybe easily sell the profitable new Jets and buy the expansion team…..is this why he is supposed to be in Winnipeg june 2nd as per what Conradicus said?
Darren, please reply.
Have you ever done the math on a $0.70 CND…….. it will happen, and in the next 30 years it will spend much more time below $0.85 than above $0.85.
I will do the math for you.
$42,500,000 USD payroll at an exchange rate of 1.428 % ( $0.70 ) = a CND payroll of $60,690,000. That sure kicks the you know what out of your best case scenario of a $10,000,000 profit. Best case scenario is now a loss of $690,000…….Now, if we want to break even we can’t keep that 4th line player that might get us 5 goals…….OMG !!! I guess someone will have to have double the ice time, and then we can break even………….at least with double ice time he may score 8 goals, but then he would want two or three mill !!!
Keep in mind that your best case scenario is based on best case revenue, and best case expenses. I guess that would work in a perfect world. If you achieve middle road revenue,( this is probably not even realistic) and a $0.70 CND $ you will be in big trouble !!!
Also, six years ago the CND $ was trading at aprox $0.60 / USD, or an exchange rate of 1.666 %. A $42,500,000 USD payroll at that time was $70,805,000 CND……….. !!! When this happens Edmonton / Calgary / Ottawa / Vancouver ?? are on life support. Toronto and Montreal can manage when this happens. Do the American owners shell out to the CND owners if this happens ?
Darren, when will you realize that with current CBA and player salaries, there is no chance of this working in WPG. Too many things need to be perfect, and that unfortunately is not realistic. Unless things change drastically………..WPG population doubles, and they are all die hard hockey fans, or player salaries are cut in half, the NHL will not work in WPG.
Please keep in mind, as stated before I am a die hard Jets fan, and would love to see them come back. In 1996 I was 23 years of age, going to school, and working part time. I would spend any extra money I had on going to the Jets game. I remember spending my last $50.00 on a ticket and wondered how I was going to buy gas for the next week. At that point in time I couldn’t wait until I was working full time and could then purchase season tickets. 13 years later I can definately afford season tickets….. my wife and I could probably afford 3 or 4. The question is will I spend $6,000 / year of my hard earned money for two tickets to watch some 23 year old kid make $60,000 / frkn game to play hockey ? 13 years ago when I wasn’t thinking properly I probably would have. Ticket prices today would probably be 3 times on avearge compared to 13 years ago. My salary compared to 13 years ago is probably 10 times greater and I would not consider paying that kind of money to watch hockey. Oh how things change as we get older and “smarter”
Some people proclaim that WPG/Man people are “tight” when it comes to spending $’s ??? I would use the word smart rather than tight . I also understand that until things change drastically there is absolutely no point in thinking about it…..it is currently nothing but a pipe dream. Do you have any idea how many people think the same as me ? If you did you would understand that it just doesn’t make sense.
Sorry for not having your positive thoughts in regards to the return of the Jets, but I currently believe all of the above is a realistic thought process.
I firmly believe Winnipeg is #1 on the relocation/expansion list.
When’s the last time Bettman- or anyone within the NHL for that matter- said something positive (or even MENTIONED) Vegas, Kansas City, Portland, Seattle, or another U.S. city?
Remember, Bettman’s quotes in that e-mail were “if this team (Coyotes) had to move it should first be offered to Winnipeg.”
Not Vegas. No Kansas. Not Portland.
WINNIPEG. First in line.
source for that quote: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/we-cant-deny-it-anymore—-nhl-could-return-45394562.html
Ah the exchange rate argument! I believe on the surface it is quite valid, however it does not take into account revenue sharing or the fact that any potential ownership group in Winnipeg (TNSE, not including minority shareholders) also derive business revenue from the operation of the MTS Centre, which is the third busiest arena (and 9th in North America) on an annual basis. Yes, in the case that the Canadian dollar would drop in future years (and it WILL happen) losses will be incurred, however under the business model that TNSE has more than likely proopsed to the NHL exchange rate risk has been taken into account.
Or “proposed” rather.
JDB,
Are you some sort of economist with a crystal ball? A 70 cent dollar is unrealistic. You mention that 6 years ago it was near 60 cents, well guess what, a year ago it was 1.10! We as Canadains are blessed with the most abundant natural resources in the world (oil, gas, potash, gold, urnaium, etc…)…..and the US, China, India, etc… all want them. Translation: a higher Cdn dollar for generations.
I must admit that even according to your math at a 70 cent dollar we almost break even with a $42,500,000 payroll. This bodes very well for our cause! And if it were to happen it affects all Canadian teams….therefore revenues fall.,….and the salary cap gets lowered for the next season. Thats the beauty of the new CBA.
Bang on WillJ!
If we experienced a very pessimistic outlook of our economy and dollar compared to the US (what a mess they are in for years to come), the collective revenue loss in Canada (which currently is 33% of NHL revenue) would make the salary cap fall league wide. Forcing the team owners to reduce payroll and expenses.
The players would take a pay cut as well. A portion of their salary is held in escrow and not all of it will be returned if such a grim forecast were to come true for the league.
If you know anything about our current situation with the MTS Center (TNSE) and Mark Chipman’s ability to manage a business (the Moose), you will notice that these circumstances compared to the old Winnipeg Arena and Winnipeg Enterprises is drastically different as far as profitability is concerned.
There are a lot of people in this city willing to pay for professional sporting entertainment. We don’t have a lot of it (Bombers & Goldeyes in the summer) so it is in demand in winter. Winter in Winnipeg is much less boring with the Jets on TV (television revenue) or going to a game with your ticket package.
No offense JDB but you are way off the mark. It is easy to think of ways the NHL will not work for Winnipeg if that is where you focus your energy. I wish Winnipegers had more faith in our ability as a community. With this negative attitude all the time, we will become what we think we are and not what we could be. Darn it! Winnipeg is soooo bad for that. Out with the old “nay sayers”, and in with the new generation! Thank goodness a more upbeat younger generation is emerging in Winnipeg.
I will say I like this site because most the arguments – both positive and negative – are generally well thought out, as opposed to what I see commented on our local newspaper websites, with comments like “stop being pathetic you couldn’t support your team in the first place” and “the MTS Centre is too small it’s never gonna happen get over it!”.
A nice change of pace to have informed discussion!
WillJ………….. and Conradicus.
In regards to your above comments……No, I am not an economist with a crystal ball. However, I am someone that seems to understand this a bit more than you. You both seem to be lacking common sense.
You proclaim that Canadian team revenue will fall if the CND tanks ? I would suggest that revenue does not fall but in fact expenses will rise. (Revenue could fall if the Canadian teams are forced to price themselves out of the market when trying to compensate themselves for the exchange rate problem) . How does higher expenses translate into lower revenue ? Revenue – expenses = net income or in this case NET LOSS !!!
With current CBA salaries rise and fall according to total revenue, not the bottom line. Therefore, when the CND tanks, the Canadian teams are at a huge disadvantage vs the American teams. This has always been a serious problem, and current CBA does nothing to help the potential exchange rate problem. Am I missing something ?
Also, based on what Obama is currently trying to accomplish, how valuble do you think our oil and gas will be worth in 10 or 15 years ? Also, in regards to our $ being strong when the U.S. economy is tanking…………why is the CND worth less now than it was a year ago ? Dahhhh. When the Americans are spending money and their economy is strong, it helps our economy and our $. When Americans spend more money they use more energy. Again , I am not an economist, but this is just pure common sense.
The NHL is a privately run and union protected entity with a special interest in the success of US –AND– Canadian NHL markets and franchises protected by a collective bargaining agreement. This is not like any typical business in Canada affected by the “pure common sense” issues surrounding the CDN dollar.
EXHIBIT A: Winnipeg will benefit when CDN dollar is GOOD as we all know:
———————————————————————————————————-
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Hockey/article/433906
EXHIBIT B: Winnipeg will manage when CDN dollar is BAD:
———————————————————————————————————–
1. Post CBA – http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2007/07/collective-bargaining-agreement-revenue.html
2. Pre CBA (low CDN dollar at time of writing) – http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/CBA/10-5cba.htm
Here is a very good read on the NHL finances:
http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/sports/story.html?id=7f3ec9f4-4cb9-4495-9335-1c396add8b1f&p=1
Want to learn more about the CBA?
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html
Sorry JDB, expenses will go higher, but revenues will fall with a lower Cdn dollar. The NHL operates in US$, therefore even if we have a lower dollar and our revenues in Cdn$ stay the same, they actually fall based in US$. This affects all Canadian teams….and therefore the league, which means lower revenues based in US$ = lower salary cap next season.
Man oh man… does there REALLY have to be so much debate, bickering, and number-crunching to see if the NHL back in Winnipeg would work?
Winnipeg is a Canadian city. Hockey is on our blood; we grow up with the game. The Winnipeg Jets left because we didn’t build a suitable arena for NHL hockey. It wasn’t built until 2004.
Case closed. Is it really endless research and number-crunching to see if it would work? If Edmonton or Ottawa didn’t currently have NHL Teams, would we still be engaged in endless debate? Or is Winnipeg really that much of an inferior/poorer city?
And the PIPEDREAM was made offical today by this posting:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2009/05/26/sp-coyotes-nhl-mediation.html?ref=rss
Winnipeg is not getting the Coyotes. Bettman does it again with keeping hockey in the US
KC,Houston or maybe Cleveland,Portland,Orlando,New Orleans,Seattle will get a team before Canada gets another one.
^ Oh dear… the Phoenix Coyotes might not move to Winnipeg. I guess the dream is dead and http://www.JetsOwner.com should be shut down tomorrow.
Oh wait, my bad. There’s still 5 or 6 NHL teams in financial trouble and on shaky ground. Forget my first 2 sentences.
It doesn’t matter how many teams in the NHL are in “financial trouble”. Even if the NHL is in trouble in a few markets that doesn’t mean that the league has any plan to relocate to Winnipeg. I don’t expect the tinfoil wearers to get this but I digress:
The proof’s in the pudding, jetswhiner. It’s 13 years and counting. Cry all you want.
Winnipeg’s population has increased by 10% since the Jets left. In the last three years of the Jets, the average ticket prices were a sliver shy of 69% of the NHL average. They were 78% of the other six Canadian franchises’ prices.
In the last three years before the sale and move were announced (attendance dropped by 2000 in the final season) then we have a team that averaged 13,287 over those three years, so if we figure that attendance increases by 10% to reflect the population increase, then we have an average attendance of 14,616. Nearly a sellout average for the MTS Centre.
To follow up, a 69% average price when compared to the NHL average is $35.47 US. That projects to approximately $21m US in ticket revenue alone from the Jets. A 78% price when compared to the Canadian team average works out to $55.11 US. That would project to approximately $33m in revenue. The current salary cap is $56.8m US, and the floor is $40.8m US. So ticket revenue would cover most of the player salary.
This does not include things such as concessions or media contracts, which would provide the team with further revenue. Beyond this, the NHL revenue sharing would also help Winnipeg. While I myself have maintained that most “unworthy” large southern markets where hockey is secondary have been more financially stable and successful as a market than Winnipeg, Quebec, or Hartford were in the 80s and early 90s, Winnipeg and Quebec probably would do well now with the renewed hunger for NHL hockey and the financial assistance for smaller markets.
Anyway, I have rambled on long enough.